The right of reply

Enough is enough. People who proclaim to fight for freedom of expression and free media but censors other's legitimate reply based on their whims and fancy, must realise that on the internet, they cannot suppress peoples' legitimate right to reply and express contrarian views. This blog welcomes all views. ~ Ellese

Allah issue

17 Comments

The battle has commenced once again. On this issue I’ve written plenty of times before and debated this everywhere. Thus I will not be repeating it.

I feel very strongly on this issue and will not compromise. A decade ago, when i visited Indonesia I vowed not to allow the Allah name be misused in Malaysia. Now this issue is right before our door steps. I feel I owe my future generation a duty to ensure what we have our tradition continues.

In one of my last debate on this, I saw the extent of certain Christian supporters’ willingness to employ deceitful means to defend the misuse of the Allah name. It doesn’t matter that their arguments are illogical and inconsistent with historical facts. They will do anything to win.

This issue will not end here and the muslims must fight until the federal court. I have contacted friends involved in this case and hope I can provide assistance to them. I pray almighty Allah to provide me and others the guidance on this.

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17 thoughts on “Allah issue

  1. I have come across many conflicting write-ups on this matter too. Nearly every one of them appeared, separately, to be reasonably argued-out and convincingly well written. If no quarters will be willing to compromise on this matter, it might well in future arrive at the Federal Court for decision as predicted by Ellese – but will it then finally satisfy everyone? I doubt it.
    Yes, of course, the word “Allah” has been used in the Arabic Language even before the times of Prophet Mohammed. The Quran, being in Arabic, also uses that word to describe the Almighty besides 98 other “Names”. We in Malaysia, like other Muslims the world over, use the Quran only in Arabic which is recognised as the only authentic version. Muslims do not have the Quran written in any other languages besides Arabic – translations & interpretations are not recognised as “soley & authentically authoritative”. If the Bible needs to be written in Arabic, the word “Allah” can reasonably be used in it to describe the Almighty. The Bible and, for that matter, any other similarly religious books written in languages other than the Arabic should not use the word “Allah” for the Almighty. The fact that the Indon Christians have been doing so for the Bible written in Indonesian Language does not qualify the same to be written in BM and to be used here in Malaysia. The Christians here in Malaysia should realise and appreciate this situation without being unnecessarily too emotional about it. The Muslims too in Malaysia should control their emotions and rely more on reasons & good rationale.

  2. Surah Maryam 19:36, [Jesus said…] “And indeed, ALLAH is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path”.

    Could the above verse be a guide to calm down the annoyance and furore that now embroils? My own interpretation of the above verse is that the Christians can use the word ALLAH. Please correct me… I stand to be corrected.

    However, what I am against is knowingly to spread confusion especially to the Muslim/Malay audience who are gullible and spiritually retarded. That is a blasphemy and ‘fitnah’ (strife) that every Muslim has a duty to prevent and to halt it.

    Thus, to me it is not the usage of the word of ALLAH that needs to be contested, but it is how to defend the people (Malay/Muslim) from the ease with which the confusion with the word ALLAH can lead them astray/away from Islam.

    It is something legitimate for Muslim to worry about and how to counter it. But, it should NOT be the reason for Muslim anger because they should be guided by ‘live and let live’ attitude of the Quran as mentioned in Surah Al Kafirun 109:1-6. ALLAH can always defend Himself.

    • “However, what I am against is knowingly to spread confusion especially to the Muslim/Malay audience who are gullible and spiritually retarded. That is a blasphemy and ‘fitnah’ (strife) that every Muslim has a duty to prevent and to halt it.”—-hasan.
      I fully agree but it is not easy to prove beyond any reasonable doubt any effort by anyone “knowingly to spread confusion especially to the Muslim/Malay audience….”. Hence some Christians would have a field day in the courts, and outside of them too, at rejoicing in challenging anyone trying to prevent them from using (or misusing) the word “Allah”.

      “Thus, to me it is not the usage of the word of ALLAH that needs to be contested, but it is how to defend the people (Malay/Muslim) from the ease with which the confusion with the word ALLAH can lead them astray/away from Islam.”—hasan.
      I also agree with the latter part of this second quotation where the gullibility & retarded spirituality of the Muslim/Malay must be effectively remedied so as to defend them “from the ease with which the confusion with the word ALLAH can lead them astray/away from Islam”. However I still have difficulty in allowing the free usage (or misusage) of the word “Allah” without being justifiably contested. Prophet Isa (Jesus Christ) was quoted in the Quran using the word “Allah” mainly because the Quran (as I said in my last posting @12:54pm on 23 August 2013 after hasan’s posting) is written only in Arabic which uses the word even before Prophet Muhammed’s times. In reality Prophet Isa (Jesus Christ) actually did not use Arabic, as far as we know, in his times when like other Jews in his area at those times, but he used non-Arabic Languages in their communications. Hence it was highly unlikely the actual Arabic word “Allah” was ever pronounced by Prophet Isa. Moreover, the later Christians’ concept of the Almighty is completely at variance with that held by the Muslims who mostly refer to the Almighty as Allah and hence the Christians’ wish to use of the word “Allah” in any other language except Arabic is justifiably contestable. If the Christians wish to have the Bible written in Arabic, by all means, they are free to use the word “Allah” in that Bible. But if they want the Bible in Bahasa Malaysia, the word “Allah” should not be used and the availability of the Bible in Indonesian Language using “Allah” is not a justification to be used as that practice itself could have been an oversight by the Indon Muslim Authorities over which the Muslims in Malaysia have no control over. Malaysian Authorities should perhaps consider banning the Indonesian Language Bible from further being imported into Malaysia – exempt those that are already in Sabah & Sarawak currently.

      • Like your reply. You can also use the verses of the Quran which liberals like haris ibrahim justify the usage. if one reads properly it showed Allah’s displeasure when the non believers tell everyone that they believe in Allah but they don’t. They have lied and misused it. And it has happened so many times in our history for our reminder currently.

        The conception of god in Christianity now is different from the Moslem’s god. I did comparative religion and our basic tenets are too far apart now. Even within itself there’s debate. If the christians win the court case, I have no doubt that they will use signboards everywhere like in Indonesia saying Allah refers to their conception of god. This is a case to be won.

        I’m happy now that our ulama are almost in unison. Previously some political ulama put politics above religion. Now PAS has come to its senses and these non erdogans are asserting back to put back in the Islamic agenda. Even liberals are finding it tough to defend and as usual resort to censorship. Again for me they bar me always questioning how I know how to reply. Funny these people.

        • Ellese,
          Because of the possible danger it might pose to the public law & order, I have my worry about it too and I am inclined to agree with you that “…If the christians win the court case, I have no doubt that they will use signboards everywhere like in Indonesia saying Allah refers to their conception of god.” And, mind you, the message on those signboards will not be targeted to the “gullible and spiritually retarded” Muslims only but will serve as a heart-breaking cynicism to all Muslims, the ulamak intellectuals and retards included. Hope it will never happen and not in Malaysia, Allah forbids. We must fight against any possible misuse of the word “Allah”.

    • Dear Hassan,

      We are gulf apart as usual. I thought of rebutting but decided to ask one question. Are you asking us (including all those muslims group involved) to drop the case to fight the use of Allah in the courts now? Just a yes and no suffice will do. Ill respond accordingly.

      • Dear Ellese,

        The utmost importance for a Muslim is the ‘shahadah’ or the statement of faith “Ashhadu Alla Ilaha Illa ALLAH Wa Ashhadu Anna Muhammad Rasulu Allah”. It means “There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is His prophet.”

        The Shi’as expanded the ‘shahadah’ by adding, “Wa Aliyyun waliyyu-Lah” meaning “and Ali is the vicegerent of God”. It is not acceptable, thus, we have to reject the Shi’as.

        Likewise, if the Christian wants to say/use only “ALLAH”, not a bit more and NO MORE, then that is a very material difference between a Christian and a Muslim. Thus, we have to reject the Christians like we reject the Shi’as.

        In Islam the statement of faith is very much more important than the usage of the word “ALLAH”. Thus, the logic for the ‘live and let live’ attitude of the Quran… “I serve not what you serve, And you are not serving what I serve. Nor am I serving what you have served, Neither are you serving what I serve. To you your religion and to me my religion.”

        • Dear bro Hassan,

          The court case is before us which will have a profound effect under our laws and lives. From your write can I categorically say that your position is that we (including all the islamic groups) should not defend the case.

        • Hasan,

          Just to correct you with the Shi’a comment you made.

          It’s true that a few sects within Shi’ism do include that part about Ali but not the majority of the sects. I suggest you learn more about Shi’ism – especially the different sects – before you write something like that.

          Here’s something for y’all to ponder. In the current Islamic world, who is leading the fight against the enemies of Islam especially the Jews?

          I’m Sunni but am just sick and tired of the Shi’ism bashing in Malaysia; worst, most of those who run their mouth know nothing about Shi’ism.

          That’s all.

          • S18.

            I have nothing but respect for ALL my Malaysian brothers. I love them just like I love my Sunni brothers. Can’t we just get along well despite of all our differences?

            At the last Friday prayer (three days ago at the mosque that I attended), the topic of the ‘khutbah’ was on Shia’ism.

            I look forward to have a cup of tea with you.

  3. Dear Ellese,

    I am not keen in jumping the gun.

    Bro… our debate is not even half-baked. We are still gulf apart. It is just my thought… it is not a ‘wahyu’ OK. As I said please correct me as I stand to be corrected.

    • Yep. We’ved not started the discourse.

      I note your opinion on the text. I’ve a view on it. I can live with your views and I don’t think I need to convince you. You probably know my position.

      But what I’m perplexed is why you don’t recognise others’ views and let it be. Why not allow other Muslims adopt a different approach by taking court cases all the way? If you believe in education method, do proceed. But allow others who may take a different approach. The Shias is a bigger fundamental issue. If you’re able embrace them so let those who believe in fighting at the courts to proceed with it.

      • A fair comment. Thanks for mentioning education and not miseducation. I think we should also let the Muslim United Nations, I mean the OIC, to decide on this issue. By the way we are all the children of Adam. I am exploring notions of toleration.

        That’s all.

        • :-). Oic is on state to state basis and i don’t think they’re a good arbitrator. Many issues have local impact. I think a referendum of either our ulama (muzakarah) or referendum of Malaysians should resolve this value issue for once. The latter is preferred as its more inclusive.

  4. My position had always been clear.

    Personally, I don’t mind if they use it.

    But what I mind, and absolutely abhor, is the duplicity. They don’t want to use Allah for my peeps back in the East, they want to use it proselytize the Malays in Peninsular.

    Yeah, I like and support PR’s proposed reforms but not to an extent where I will sacrifice my beliefs.

    I am a Muslim, first and foremost.

    • Interesting to see the near similarity in the concept & context of the words used by Sabahan18 and those written by hasan; and I quote both below:
      “Personally, I don’t mind if they use it.
      But what I mind, and absolutely abhor, is the duplicity. They don’t want to use Allah for my peeps back in the East, they want to use it (to) proselytize the Malays in Peninsular” —Sabahan18.
      “However, what I am against is knowingly to spread confusion especially to the Muslim/Malay audience who are gullible and spiritually retarded. That is a blasphemy and ‘fitnah’ (strife) that every Muslim has a duty to prevent and to halt it.
      Thus, to me it is not the usage of the word of ALLAH that needs to be contested, but it is how to defend the people (Malay/Muslim) from the ease with which the confusion with the word ALLAH can lead them astray/away from Islam.” — hasan.

      Both Muslim brothers above are sincerely concerned about the possible tricky pretext and duplicity (the hidden bad intention) in this attempt by local Christians to use “Allah” in the Bahasa Malaysia (BM) Bibles. But “intention” is not easy to prove in court as I wrote earlier that “….it is not easy to prove beyond any reasonable doubt any effort by anyone “knowingly to spread confusion especially to the Muslim/Malay audience….”. Hence some Christians would have a field day in the courts, and outside of them too, at rejoicing in challenging anyone trying to prevent them from using (or misusing) the word “Allah”. Malays/Muslims are already challenged now by the Christians saying that if the Malays/Muslims here can be easily wavered by Christians using “Allah” in the BM Bibles, then it proves they have no strong faith in Islam in the first place. The use of such logic against the Muslims even challenged and be-littled the so-called Liberal Muslims to such an extent that they felt obliged to join the Christians against the interest of the other Muslims.

      Ellese has also expressed concern for the future by saying that “….If the christians win the court case, I have no doubt that they will use signboards everywhere like in Indonesia saying Allah refers to their conception of god.” To which as a response, I wrote “… And, mind you, the message on those signboards will not be targeted to the “gullible and spiritually retarded” Muslims only but will serve as a heart-breaking cynicism to all Muslims, the ulamak intellectuals and retards included. Hope it will never happen and not in Malaysia, Allah forbids…”

      If this is not handled appropriately by the Authorities, the matter can be a serious threat to the
      law & order situation in Malaysia.

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