The right of reply

Enough is enough. People who proclaim to fight for freedom of expression and free media but censors other's legitimate reply based on their whims and fancy, must realise that on the internet, they cannot suppress peoples' legitimate right to reply and express contrarian views. This blog welcomes all views. ~ Ellese

Stop spreading lies

26 Comments

Of late we’ve been inundated with false election allegations. Worse, some are so gullible to believe nonsensical assertion as the truth. I need to set the record straight again.

Allegation of ballot box brought to the central counting centre

There’s been pictures after pictures showing people stopping ballot boxes going into the central counting centers and thinking that this is a proff that fraud is committed in the election.

This is one ridiculous argument. Currently, counting is carried out at your saluran ie the classroom you vote. Why? Coz they don’t want the issue of ballot boxes being introduced during transportation. This has been implemented lama dah.

What this means is that after the voting, counting is immediately carried out before both counting agents at the saluran. If there’s a break they will seal the box and it’ll be countersigned by the agents. The classroom is locked and guarded not by the police only but by all the counting agents. Unless you have a blind polling/counting agent, I assert that there’s absolutely no possibility to introduce new ballot boxed. Thus this is the reason you dont hear until today complains by any polling /counting agents on this ballot box.

Now when counting is done, its done before both parties counting agents. They show each votes to them and if the counting agent is not happy he is entitled to and will object. If its close you can ask for recount. Kira lah sampai puas hati. Then what they do is that they sign off the numbers in a form. This is most important.

Its from this number they tally at the central voting centre. You add up lah semua. Just maths. Do you count again the votes in the ballot box? No.

I’ve been saying this countless of times. Its difficult to cheat on polling day save if the polling agent tidur. I stand by it. I’m pleased to come across PR polling agent writing similar points. One in particular was Nurul izzah’s counting agent. We must stop this lie.

What about postal votes?

Please be informed that postal votes look very different from ours. What does this mean? Their ballot papers are the same but inserted in a sealed envelop. They use postal services brought to the counting centre in postal bags. Only at the centre the envelop is open before the agents.

What transpired is that before election both polling agents witness before themselves how the ballots are inserted in an envelop. How its posted. This election, polling agents can actually see the conduct of postal votes and how they cast it into the postal bags. I repeat POSTAL BAGS. And then its brought to the centre. The envelopes are still sealed and only open before polling agents.

I have argued that I want the postal votes to expand. I don’t want to queue for 2 hours to vote. I should have the right of postal voting like citizens in other developed countries. But that’s a separate issue I will write later.

But point is the allegation of fraud on postal ballot box is ridiculous. None of the pictures showed picture of postal bags. They showed picture of ballot boxes but as written above its not important. The votes in the in ballot boxes have been counted,

Again please don’t spread false and fabricated news.

We have issues in our election procedure. But fraud is unlikely. Malapproportionment is an issue. The registration can be argued as an issue. But nothing justifies the treatment on alleged Banglas that’s being spread around. I’ve seen some are even PR supporters. Its a bigotted dehumanizing act that we did. Many took the laws into their own hands. This is shameful.

To Anwar and those of his ilk, I’m adamantly opposed to the method of changing government by rally. If you are unhappy you can and must bring this to court. Let us see your proof. Right now I’m just appalled by the selective recognition of the election. If you think there’s pervasive fraud, then don’t appoint MB of Selangor, Penang and Kelantan. You cannot recognise results that only favour you in particular in states that you won. Stop being selective and conning people.

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26 thoughts on “Stop spreading lies

  1. Hi Ellese, i cant comment much on your post as i am not familiar with the procedure. Just want to know your take on below article, dont start your write with the term rubbish, conclude as such is fine ๐Ÿ™‚

    http://dinmerican.wordpress.com/2013/05/13/ge-13-massive-electoral-fraud/

    “To Anwar and those of his ilk, Iโ€™m adamantly opposed to the method of changing government by rally.”

    I doubt many are convinced that anyone can change govt by rally in Malaysia. I dont think that is the intention. Perhaps you can share with me your insightful view.

    And bro hasan, i am mad when i read how some choose machiavellian over brotherhood. i am not sure if that is some sort of ‘feck’.

    • HY,

      I do not see it as machiavellian. It is just conflicting factors, opposing values and dualism which generates our inner tension. In this particular case, one is PKR and one is DAP. Chill la bro.. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • hmmm perhaps u r right, but my contention is never about pkr per se, my concern is more on how the respective pr parties being neutralised, or in chinese terminology being “harmonized” by the ruling party.

      i know the rally cant achieve much but at least it 1) let the people make their stand known 2) to affirm the trust among leader and people, thus enyone want to frog have to think twice bec they know their roots of power is from the people.

      and no worry about kt n me. we wakaka eash other for years. though in the past i might use handle like rhan or anon.

    • HY,

      On 1st May 2013, I attended a wedding. Of course the table topic was on election. The gentleman next to me said he that he was going back to Penang to vote BN and collect RM200.00. I thought he was joking.

      Is this just a coincidence?

      http://aliran.com/13715.html

      • If true its an offence. But seriously how can aliran even concluded like that? There was no eyewitness to show it was bn. The documentary evidence showed none as well. Can’t this be a betting scheme? How did they get it? It doesn’t make sense why bn pays for it coz they never know how they vote pun.
        This is a very unjustified sinister article.

      • “There was no eyewitness to show it was bn” – this i can agree, a better description is for bn?

        “Canโ€™t this be a betting scheme?” – bet definition is risk something, usually a sum of money, against someone else’s on the basis of the outcome of a future event. hovewer in this case the voter have no risk, only gain or nothing. of course we still can argue from a hedge pov, but the ultimate aim is still for bn.

        • I doubt it is authentic. All sorts of tricks are available via the use of cyberspace – photos, videos and even plain data can be made to lie. If this is really genuine, would it remain wrapped in the cyber-world for any length of time without breaking into the open?

        • Can also agree. But reporting was flawed in not excluding it. Why can’t it just interview and give an opportunity to reply and respond?

        • hi both, actually i dont quite understand how the scheme work and it success rate, it remind me of a chinese idiom “a heavenly lady scatter blossoms” thus everyone that vote seem to have a chance to be rewarded but there is no guarantee the recipient will vote bn, however they know the heavenly lady is definitely one that pro bn. i believe it is authentic, because some of my friends got it, mostly in small town, hard cash.

          • You will have to find more than the majority win number of witnesses to testify before the petition is valid. From what we can see, don’t hope on it. Even if a few is willing to testify, it will be brushed off like Ellese here.

            So the argument is Aliran is hopeless. Ellese is the best! ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • There’s a basic principle of de minimis. This is basic law and principle of justice. PR can’t bring grounds which has no affect to the decision. Elementary my friend.

          • Which brings all the advantages to the incumbent ruling party because to fight in Election Court, one must bring not only proof of wrong doing but that it must be substantial to affect the result.

            If reasonable doubt is the target, then there is all the evidence. But this is not the case.

    • The premise of the article is false and utterly ignorant of the process.

      In short, let me reply that all spoil votes have to be agreed upon by counting agents. Both polling agents of bn and pr will have to argue until they agree to it. No two ways. There’s nothing sinister and a pack of lies.

      I don’t have a problem for demonstration in stadium according to the law. But I have major problem people using false argument and lies to start public rally and hate to topple a government. Our government is legal and legitimate. I can give benefit of doubt to the claims but it must go through courts. Only the courts can declare its not legitimate and until then please show us the proof of fraud.

      Most of the allegations have been lies and cannot stand the due process expected of not only in Malaysia but of a civil society.

      • If people like you believe that the rallies were designed to topple the Govt, then you are totally mistaken. They can’t change the Govt, they won’t make the EC admit to anything, they can’t change gerrymandering, they can’t do nothing except to let go their frustration of feeling being cheated in the GE13.

        So they shout themselves hoarse and go home.

        Your issue is the cause of the rally being based on a false argument and lies. Well, to them, they don’t believe the cause are lies. That’s why you are at home and they are out there.

        • You must be joking again or totally disconnected or again not truthful. The rally is to unseat the government. They deemed the government illegitimate. This is utterly not acceptable.

          The reason to unseat must be founded on law and at least reasonable. Now some of the grounds are total joke. So jangan diperbodohkan. Fight a cause based on truth. Lies and falsehood just demean your actions.

          • Where did you hear or read that the 505 Black rallies are to unseat the Govt? Please watch the video recordings and the press statements.

            Yes, they deem the Govt illegitimate because of claims of widespread fraud. That’s their political prerogative. And none of any such claims are looked into by EC, MACC or Police. So you can’t blame them for emoting. Solve and disprove the allegations and this will die a natural death.

            This means you believe that the BN Govt is clean, free from corruption and fraud of GE13. Right? This appears to be your position here.

          • Bull. Prove it in court. If you can’t prove shut up.

          • Your retort is classic where you know there is fraud and corruption but you want to deny it.

            State your view clearly. Do you agree that BN is totally free from corruption and fraud of GE13? Yes or No will do. No need to call names and distract.

  2. Ellese,

    I agree with you and what you said. The PR polling agent at Lembah Pantai for Nurul that you talked about is Johann Sze who wrote a very factual, objective and professionally technical report of his task including describing the surrounding environment that proved all allegations about FRU & Police pressure & threats wrong. The counting & repeated recounting are only done and allowed at each “saluran” or stream if the margin is less than 4% – NO recounting is done or allowed at the final tallying centre because, as you said, it is mere arithmetic being done there, based on the Forms 14 which were signed by all party agents and countersigned by the SPR at each “saluran”, with the ballot boxes brought in just as a formality. So, theoretically the number of ballot boxes brought in at this final stage is irrelevant and will not affect the result as claimed by that PR candidate at Tapah and many others especially in various blogs. However there was one person by the name of Michelle (something….) claiming to be also a PR Counting Agent somewhere else giving a very emotional & negatively judgemental report on her experience.

    On HY’s comments about the rallies, my worry is that the participants especially the youths (our future hope) could be misled with unproven allegations and with the idea that it is OK to break the laws if their wishes & desires are not met or if they think the laws are “unfair”. Again, the link given to dinmerican blog was a very good example of emotional and negatively judgemental write-up freely disseminated by the great din merican.

    • Din likes to spread falsehood and deny the truth. He’s a basket case.

      To be frank there are issues but there’s too many pack of lies. To base on lies to say government is illegitimate is dangerous and should be condemned.

    • Unfortunately, there are SPR practices of not signing the Borang 14 or forced the PA to sign first. It is the folly of PAs but the SPR then cannot be trusted to be fully independent. Some KTMs are also Umno branch leaders and they may have been overly zealous to ensure a BN win.

      There are just too many questionable actions by SPR and Police together during this GE13 that must be sorted out and disproved before the matter will be closed. As long as nobody in power is doing that and sweeping under the carpet, it implies the allegations are true and the Govt is trying to hide something.

      • You’re lying through your teeth. Then paca object lah. You’re starting to be intellectually dishonest.

        • If you are the PACA and the KTM tells you to sign before the count, you object then you give the BN an unsigned Borang 14 to fill in any number they want.

          If you sign, you give an official endorsement of an unknown eventual number which will be added without your knowledge.

          Serba salah.

          You are starting to be intellectually ignorant.

  3. Ellese,
    Just FYI, our great friend, din merican, is still dead against any contrary opinions not in the groove with his mind set.

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