The right of reply

Enough is enough. People who proclaim to fight for freedom of expression and free media but censors other's legitimate reply based on their whims and fancy, must realise that on the internet, they cannot suppress peoples' legitimate right to reply and express contrarian views. This blog welcomes all views. ~ Ellese

Why we must reject LKS’ and DAP’s racial politics

169 Comments

As expected, the Chinese overwhelmingly supported DAP and PR and had left a bad aftertaste. The open broad support by the chinese has instead solidified the Malays towards BN. It has raised a big question on BN that whatever you do, the Chinese will never support BN. LKS aggressive support to decimate MCA to be the sole party for the Chinese has split our nation badly. The chinese rejection of the johorian way of compromise, will make johorian malays rethink of their longstanding approach of the chinese. I’ve written before, DAP has taken our country far too the right.

As a consequence, BN is mainly UMNO and Sabah Sarawak coalitions. MCA must honorably reject the offer to be part of the cabinet. Chinese should not be represented to be fair. They don’t want bn to represent them pun.

The DAP must learn to compromise. Its uncompromising push for its agenda actually hurts PAS the core of PR. The Malays see how PAS is made a pushover by DAP even in terms of religion. This, DAP must learn and reach out.

Najib I think will still be moderate. There will be clamoring for less inclusivity. Many will argue that even when the Chinese are wholly united, this is a worse case scenario: without the Chinese, BN is still strong and will win. The Malays must hold back and not play and follow the DAP hate game. This would be disastrous for our nation. BN must still show moderation and hold back the backlash. The outpouring of Malay support I saw a day before election should not be a demand for more hate. All of us must go back to the politics of moderation and compromise. That’s how we build our nation. That’s the spirit of our constitution. That’s the Nash equilibrium or point of social cohesion.

I’ve written before, to change this point of social cohesion, the Chinese must give in more to gain more. They must give up some of their exclusive rights (chinese schools eg) for Malays to not push for NEP. By pushing all to go their way it has brought a counter reaction of solidifying the Malays.

Umno will receive a major backlash I suspect for giving in too much. More will question najib’s approach. But umno too is hampered by this point of cohesion. If they want two third they must be more inclusive. Otherwise it’ll be a simple majority,

The Malays I hope can maintain their usual trait. Being tolerant. The next few months which include the umno election is critical in determining our future direction. They must hold back and be tolerant.

DAP in the meanwhile must also realise that this is the max they can gain in pr Nash equilibrium and will not help the Chinese interest anymore. As a gesture of compromise, a resignation of lks from dap politics to take all the blame for pushing this way, will help the moderate Malays in particular Najib.

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169 thoughts on “Why we must reject LKS’ and DAP’s racial politics

  1. as usual a good read, not entirely agree though. a short one :

    1) Overall PR does improve.

    2) More likely urban vs rural rather than Malay versus Chinese

    3) If we read KT/Looes and likes of typical mindset, we know DAP win the battle but lose the war, as you may guess rightly. Najib give in to Chinese was a bright strategy, it create fear in some Malay, DAP uncompromising approach in some issue for eg seat allocation and mass rally put their Malay partner in very tricky and difficulty situation. However i always doubt DAP have the will to become part of federal. DAP already won the Chinese votes, why the needs for mass rally and strong campaign at Chinese area? My PKR buddy put it correctly during campaign, 90% Chinese is with PR already, why don’t they approach the Malay instead? However to be fair, PR lack resources.

    …cont….

    • Again, what is the evidence that says DAP is racist? That’s a very extreme prejudice being shown here. We can easily say Umno is the one playing both sides, to the rural Malays one tune, to the urban Malays another. Just like Tun M playing Malay sentiments against PAS and DAP. Racial politics is far worse demonstrated by Umno using Perkasa as the mouthpiece for extremities.

      BN, like yourself, like to view things thru racial glasses. Can’t we put race aside and work as Malaysians for the good of everybody? Najib giving last minute recognition and promises to the Chinese schools and for land didn’t work because the Chinese rejects such politics. Why didn’t he promise this to the rural poor?

      If Pakatan Rakyat played up one race against another, I condemn them. That’s being racist.

      If Barisan Nasional played up the same, I also condemn them.

      There was the difference of the urban verses the rural. Not Chinese vs Malay which is being racist and that’s the slant of this posting.

      Did you mean urban Malays are not Malays? No. They support PR for various reasons together with other races.

      The information dissemination across the country via alt media affected the Chinese more than others in the rural areas. I say this as a general observation.

      I also agree to generalize is unfair. Some things must be also taken at local level.

      Need to digest the results first before I vomit.

      I guess you will want to sweep aside all phantom voters and fraud issues and call this a really clean and fair election as Najib declared.

      • I see. What do you call when DAP call the decimation of MCA? What do you call 1miliion Chinese to reject Mca? Are you actually living in Malaysia.

        When Malay unite its racist. When Chinese unite its not? Come on

        • Ellese

          Clearly you missed the point. The Chinese communitiy can be represented by PAS, PKR and DAP. That’s who they voted. Together with them, the Malays (not sure about the Indian votes yet) also voted the same way.

          It was against BN to reject racial polarization and focus on PR for all Malaysians.

          The Chinese population only makes about 26% of the country. The votes that make up PR seats come from both Chinese and Malay regardless whether for PKR, PAS or DAP. Just that it is not BN.

          Racist is not about uniting but about imposing one’s community views over others.

          MCA was purely rejected as a representation for the Chinese community because they see PKR, PAS and DAP more capable of doing that for them and to do it for ALL Malaysians which is the same view held by a large % of Malays.

          So don’t flog the racist horse here and view everything through racial glasses.

          • p2b,

            I would suggest you do not reply to this post anymore, it will only invite more racist to come.

            You know Ellese the Racist, once he has made up his mind, nothing can change him. Don’t fall into his racist trap.

            Thank you, p2b.

          • Agreed. 😉

            Thanks bro.

          • So you’re into name calling. I think you’re racist p2b. You apply racism ikut suka hati.

          • Sorry, when umno call for malay unity its racism. When DAP calls on Chinese to abandon Mca and unite under DAP its not racism. Something wrong somewhere isn’t it. Check the values.

    • …cont….

      4) DAP is as expected but i am not sure the route ahead since their support from the Chinese is all time high, next is only to maintain or go down unless they become more inclusive. However i am a bit shock toward PAS not so good performance and at the same time surprise with PKR better than (my) expected since i always thought both should encounter the common impact and causal. During MT days, i used to have discussion with one fine islamist using the nick “anti hypocrisy” and msk. i think the performance of PAS has nothing to do with their aspiration on hudud, there is many reason why people vote or not vote pas but hudud is never the main one. i could be wrong but this is how i feel.

      5) I dont think most Chinese worry about what Umno think or do. The segregation all the years already result in most chinese not attach with public or govt, and private is actually a urban mix comprising various race, the only way i see is to improve the governance, economies and living std, otherwise it wouldn’t solve BN relatively inferior election result as compare to the past.

      6) The PAS pakcik told us he felt very please the Chinese finally sitting along with PAS supporters in the same camp after all this years, and vote them. I told him the same. I believe this sort of spirit (Hasan comment) lost long time ago among some of us and we don’t have to attend the same school to accomplish such cohesion and togetherness.

      • Good point.

        4) I think PAS has moved towards the centre at the expense of their previous dogmatic stands. People used to know what’s their position on Islam. But when you move for expediency sake, the trust is lost among many Muslims. The rejection of many liberal erdogans like dzul, salehuddin, Husam etc is telling. Sabu is etdogan but he’s just a loud mouth with no strong Islamic credentials. Khalid samad would have lost in my reckoning if there is a better candidate.

        5) noted. But here where it gets interesting. Umno’s bottom line can’t improve unless they get the Chinese. And the Chinese will see that even with the max, they can’t win. Unless both Najib and LKS/LGE acknowledge, we will see more exclusivity between races.

        6) that same experience is also felt within BN when they work together. We should encourage more of this. And it shouldn’t be when we’re adult. It should start from school. However as a rule of thumb, you don’t make real friends in politics. In politics friends converge due to common interests. Real friends are friends you build outside politics such as in schools.

    • Can agree with you save for item two.

      On item 2 when you say 90% of the Chinese votes went to PR, its already telling on the race effect. Lets take gelang patah. Ghanie was appealing on the Johor give and take way. But the Chinese felt lks is the champion of the Chinese and not allow him to lose. Its pure race affinity here. We need to recognise this to move beyond.

      • i think is fine if we draw not similar conclusion, 90% chinese (just guessing i dont have the exact numbeer) vote pr not dap, and the 90% could be less than 50% of the total that vote pr. i see multi racial versus i dont know what, at least in selangor and kl.

        • Likewise, I am a bit shock with PAS not so good performance too. Harun Din, Mat Sabu, Salahuddin Ayob, and Husam Musa did not deliver. I also agree that PAS performance has got nothing to do with its aspiration for hudud. It is a religious aspiration and not a political one. The instigator and beneficiary of hudud are the Malays/Muslims. Perhaps, it is wise that Karpal Singh should stop barking at it.

          • DAP should give PAS more face.

          • “DAP should give PAS more face.”

            i can agree with u on this, that is y i rarely touch on the allah n hudud topic bec it doesn’t help pr at all. but dap concern chinese would equal them as another mca.

        • You may be right. Haven’t done the numbers. But my point is when overwhelming (90%) Chinese move to one side, Malays see this unity as a threat and reacted as such.

          • can sort of agree, but i never read anything on chinese unity even from lks, actually pr strategy n propaganda at urban is a pretty good one, no touch on race n religion, it shd be the way move forward. however problem is many dap ceramah n rally attended mostly chinese, it might give a false impression that dap is about chinese only n this might have some impact on pas n pkr. dap forget that chinese reacted the same during reformasi when it seem everyone on the street is malay. that is y i told kt this could be a wrong move. n kt reply is as usual, dap never wrong. i just hope this kt n looes type dun represent the core mindset of dap people.

  2. Ellese,

    This post is in EXTREMELY racist undertones.

    Totally, out of context.

    Do you not have enough database to qualify such claims.

    I hope you would delete this post for harmony sake and wait a few days for those data to roll out.

  3. But I agree with Ellese on the following:

    1. That Umno is BN and BN is Umno
    This is now totally fair and interchangeable. Najib is Umno, Najib is BN.

    2. That MCA and Gerakan shall have no seats in the Cabinet
    They didn’t win, they said they will not want seats, and they shouldn’t get them. If this means that the BN Govt will not take care of non-Malays, then it is a racist regime. You will have to agree with me on that.

    I disagree on the following:

    1. Umno gave in too much to Chinese demands
    Bullshit. If there is a genuine need, they must be met, regardless of race. The policy has been give Chinese last. So each time something is given to the Chinese or Indian, it is blown up and told to them see Umno is giving you something and you must be grateful. This is racist. They tell the same to the rural Malays that only Umno can help and save them. Did they think the Malay leaders in PR are nutcase and not care about Malays too? So I condemn this practice.

    2. Chinese give up some exclusive rights to Chinese schools
    Did you know the Govt does not fund them totally, only in part? Did you know they scrounge for money all the time and the community must support them else they close shop? So is that wrong to ask the Govt to help them?

    But I feel that if the National School system and syllabus can produce excellent results, the Chinese parents will send their kids to Sekolah Kebangsaan. It’s not the race, it’s the quality of education. Else they send to private schools. The MOE is totally screwed up.

    The issue should be improve the education system, quality and level, then the economics will do the rest. Not a race issue.

    3. Social Cohesion
    Umno and BN destroys social cohesion while mouthing the 1Malaysia slogan. The words and deeds do not synchronize. Biro Tatatertib Negara (BTN) destroys whatever muhibbah exists between the communities. Are you saying that the Malays in PKR, PAS and DAP cannot work with the other races in those parties? They are multiracial in various degrees but not Umno, MCA and MIC who are distinctly racial. Social cohesion is so crucial to unite the country so that together we can compete in the global economy. No, not Umno. It is Malay first, Malaysian next.

    When we are overseas, we are proud to call ourselves Malaysians. Not Malay or Chinese or Indian. We should also be proud to call ourselves Malaysians when in our homeland, while some parties want to say is not homeland to many others.

    Go to Sabah and Sarawak and you can see the social cohesion on the non-political level, people eating with each other regardless of race and religion, etc.

    • Again you show double standards. The sooner you realise this the better it would be.

      We have used racist selectively. I’ve experimented at other blogs. I find Malaysians call things racist if it affects them. But not racists if it affects others. You are like that.

      I’m leaving you to consider what you write. You must understand the value of our constitution. Its what you agree to uphold. Understand its part of our cohesion. Pushing one end and not the other will not go anywhere. And its nothing to do with funding ke or quality. Its protection of our ethnicity. Once you follow this, your call for racism will apply both ways. It cannot be one sided.

      • Show me whether the double standards are. I have defined what I call racist. You have chosen to pick on this topic and being irresponsible to view things using racial glasses.

        I also know the Constitution. There is nothing about protecting ethnicity in this debate. Who is calling for anyone to give up their ethnicity? Sure, many Chinese feels that if there are no more Chinese schools then that’s the end of them. I disagree. This is an emotional statement and the desire to protect status quo from pre-independence days.

        So which part of the Constitution are you referring to for me to know?

        As long as education can cater for their identity and comply to a high standard of education across the board, I believe the Chinese Schools can be merged. Parents are not sending their children to Chinese Schools because they want to feel more Chinese. What an absurd thinking! They feel the system is much more superior than Sekolah Kebangsaan. There are many Malay parents doing the same and their kids doing far better than others.

        The BN way is not for cohesion but for loosely coupled harmony which is always in the balance and behind the scenes whack non-Malays. Being a Malaysian first will never lose ethnicity. It builds nationalism. Build a Malaysian Malaysia. A bigger pond for everybody so nobody is left out.

  4. chinese will pay the price. the boycott campaign has started. buy chinese last

    • See, you never use your brains to think properly and believes what you read about what Najib said.

      There is no truth in that statement just because he wants to think that way. Irresponsible as a PM.

      What you said is also totally irresponsible. Almost 52% of Malaysians voted PR. Look at that change. Not just a single group but all communities are doing just that.

      • I see. Now im not using my brains. Bull man.

        You’re up to your dishonest self again. I have never said PR didn’t get non Malay votes. Neither did Najib. You don’t phrase an argument in your bloody head and attribute to me.

        What is admittedly clear is that overwhelming Chinese voted for PR. This is a fact lah you fool. Only chauvinistic attitude of yours trying to deny this truth.

        Its people like you who takes our country apart.

    • This is what worries me. Many including professionals are questioning like this. We need somehow to move towards moderation bro. But the Chinese need to recognise this.

      • Absurd thinking again.

        It is not about moderation. You are towing the Najib line but will you tow the Muhyiddin line when he take over?

        It is not about the Chinese or Malay or Bumiputras. It is about building a harmonious and equitable Malaysia. No more corruption, no more cronyism, focus on meeting the needs of people and not based on race.

        Is this so hard to understand?

        Buzz comments are irresponsible and you generalizing that Malay professionals are questioning it are also irresponsible. You all are saying Malays from PAS and PKR and DAP are not Malays, just exactly Hasan’s comments. They have broken free from the Umno shackle of being narrow minded.

        Did you know that Malays, Chinese, Indians and other Bumiputras in PR recognize the unity and harmony of each other but those outside feel along racial lines?

        If you both keep looking at things through racial colored lenses, there is little benefit and hope in this discourse.

        • What? I concluded this before Najib lah. Nothing to do with him. I’m independent. That’s your problem. I even forewarn before election.

          You typically tow the pr line. Try to think independently lah. Try to conclude from legit public sources lah.

          I dislike your manner in categorizing my comment like this. Handle head on lah.

          Ok. Tell me what’s wrong telling people the fact that 90% Chinese voted for PR. Is this a wrong thing to conclude? Why? Justify. With me you don’t go around the bush. This is my first time I ask and I expect you to answer.

  5. I do not like the term ‘chinese tsunami’. That is a lack of respect I think. How can the chinese be expected to respect the malays when the malays themselves show a great lack of self respect for them. Now, having said that am I anti malay and a traitor to my own race? How can I be anti malay/muslim when I am a malay/muslim? How can I be a traitor to the malays when I want to live in peace and harmony with HY, Wave, and Muthu, or uncle LKS, etc… ? How can I be anti muslim when God says all humans are equal before me and we all are the sons of Adam?

    • kita tidak kalah, cuma belum menang. 🙂

      • HY… in terms of popular votes we have won. In term of spirits we are one. In terms of message we have already delivered. If they finally change their ways of managing this country for the betterment of all, we have achieved what we want. 🙂

    • I support you, hasan!

      I find Ellese really unbecoming to post such racist intonation.

      I have requested Ellese to delete this post. The way Ellese structure the whole post is racist in nature and NOT diplomatic. If we continue to engage this racist bigot, it will widen within us instead of bringing us together.

      There is only one god, Allah!

      There is only race, the human race.

      • Wave, I have written many times DAP plays the racial sentiments. Many disagree but now the evidence is for all to see.

        This result is not good for us as it polarized us more. Either we admit it or we move into deeper schism.

        And please stop calling me racist based selective definition. I refrain for the time being.

        The way the outcome develops is not how I wanted. If bn wins this by the same margin with varied support across all its not too worrying. But to have bn based purely on Malay and Indian support is totally not good. Unless there’s overture from the Chinese, we will split further.

        You may want to pursue this way, but I think its not right. UMNO should think and focus on kicking out corrupt people rather than this racial divide issue. LKS is perfect to admit its not good and consider compromise with PAS. Otherwise it will hurt us more.

        • Racist Ellese,

          That is where I started to know that you a RACIST. But I have refrain myself from replying to you as it is all written on other people’s blog that you gate crash.

          Your refusal to write in your blog about vernacular school.

          You’ve invited commentators such as ‘buzz’ to be here. You think you are doing a service to the nation, you racist bigot, Ellese!

          I STRONGLY suggest you delete this post immediately.

          Okay, okay, I humbly request. Please…

          Tolong… May peace be with you.

          • Dear racist hypocrite wave,

            Fortunately I’m not like you who thrives on corrupt values. Your double standards are appalling. If a person you like practice corrupt fraudulent values you not only praise him but ask people to support him. But if you don’t like him even unproven allegation you condemned.

            But worse are again your malas membaca attitude. Then accuse falsely. I’ve written about it and why its racist to support it. I won’t reward your laziness. Go read all my previous posts.

      • DAP racist ok pula. PAS bigot boleh pula.

        • Yeah Yeah Ellese not bigot, Umno not racist. Happy?

          Just saying this can change the fact? Baloney!

          • Why is it not racist when lks call the Chinese to unite under dap and not Mca? Why is it racist when umno calls on the Malay to unite?

            Why is it fine when you guys support 1000000 million Chinese reject Mca to support pr?

            Racist is always a racist.

          • This does not answer why you support racist and bigots.

    • Hasan

      I fully agree with you and also with HY and Wave33.

      I posted my views http://proud2bmalaysian.wordpress.com/2013/05/06/early-observations-of-ge13-results/

      If we want to look at things with racial glasses, then everything will be raicial. I condemn such views.

      Najib’s comments had racial overtones typical of Umno while calling for national reconciliation. Imagine slapping someone in the face while trying to make up with him.

      You, my brother, can see things the way it should be.

      And I await Ellese to start to chew me up 😉

      • p2b,

        You are wrong!

        We, Malaysian must chew up a racist bigot like Ellese.

        Ibrahim Ali and Zulkifli Noordin are politically dead.

        • Ah Wave

          Now you make me hungry to chew something (or someone) 😉

          No racist lunch coz I will stamp that out with all my small might.

          Yes, Malaysians have spoken about people like Ibrahim Ali and Zul Nordin. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

        • Wave,

          You are wrong!

          We, Malaysian must chew up a racist bigot like Wave.

      • Huh. DAP ran the Chinese racial sentiment uniting the Chinese boleh pula.

        • Please provide evidence and context of your claims. Tq. 😉

          • You’re blind or like previously pretend to.

            Why is it not racist for dap to use racial sentiment in attacking Mca? They attack Mca purely based on race saying they follow umno lah, unable to defend Chinese concern lah, complaining Mca gives Chinese seats away lah etc etc. their Modus is simple. To show chinese that Mca no longer capable of standing up to protect the Chinese interest and they are able to champion that. Pure and simple. They purposefully tackle Chinese and not Malaysian interest. That’s why they target Chinese majority area.

            You’re blinded by politics. Thus unable to discern the truth. If you just look at dap method, when umno do the same its called racist. When Mca does that its not racist. But when dap does this its not racist. Why is it not racist when it comes to Chinese?

    • Who says you’re anti Malay/Muslims? That’s wrong. Ill defend you here.

    • This term is irresponsible and very racist and bigotry.

      He must have been given the excuse by Chua SL.

      The reality is that PR won new seats in Sabah and Sarawak, largely Sabah Bumiputras.

      If there wasn’t substantial Malay votes, Gelang Patah will not have been won by LKS.

      Hasan, you are right on!

      • Typical double standard. Its a fact that most Chinese support PR. You guys admitted it already. What’s wrong calling a spade a spade. And how in this world tsunami suddenly becomes racist. You guys always have selective definition of race.

      • Another thing. Please apply the same responsible and bigotry standard on DAP as well.

  6. ‘you don’t make real friends in politics’

    Yeah… as an ilustration just like frogs. Some people consider them as the model for mankind, still.

    • but what is ‘real’ friends? friend have less to do with cohesion i think, common objective yes. me n hasan n ellese n many here may not be good friend but as long as we share a similar passion n objective, there will be cohesion. my objective is remain as tukar, and move toward a healthy 2 party system. we fail this round, but at least this is the first time my dun constituency go to pas, which never happen before, n i am glad i did contribute a small part to it.

      no andainya aku pergi dulu then layang layang terputus tali la, we move on

      Berarak mendung kelabu
      Mengekori langkahku
      Sepanjang kehidupan
      Penuh dugaan
      Namun aku tetap aku

      Kucuba dan terus mencuba
      Mencapai suria
      Walau membakar jiwa
      Walau aku dihina
      Namun aku tetap aku

      Derita oh derita
      Engkau di mana-mana
      Walaupun jauh aku berlari
      Mahupun berdiam diri
      Namun indah mimpi dari realiti
      Hidupku tanpa arah
      Bagaikan layang-layang
      Terputus talinya

      Tapi pasti suatu hari nanti
      Sinar suriakan menjelma

      🙂

      • To HY…

        Disini lahirnya sebuah cinta
        Yang murni abadi sejati
        Disini tersemai cita cita
        Bercambah menjadi warisan

        Andai ku terbuang tak diterima
        Andai aku disingkirkan
        Kemana harusku bawakan
        Kemana harusku semaikan cinta ini

        Betapa
        Dibumi ini ku melangkah
        Keutara selatan timur dan barat
        Ku jejaki

        Aku
        Bukanlah seorang perwira
        Gagah menjunjung senjata
        Namun hati rela berjuang
        Walau dengan cara sendiri
        Demi cinta ini

        Ku ingin kotakan seribu janji
        Sepanjang kedewasaan ini
        Ku ingin sampaikan pesanan
        Kita lah penyambung warisan

        From Fauziah & Hasan & Rajem & Janet Lee & Ai Swan & Yusuf & Sivamalar & Satwan Kaur & Badariah & Alan & Keah & Ravi & A Kek

      • HY

        You pen this man? Hebat bro. I think you are more than what you write the other day.

        I’m worried where our nation is going. I’m still watching and pushing where I can. If it gets too far, we should meet. I probably need to articulate what we should do first.

        I’m into a few diverse groups and all are pulling apart. Its getting tiring to restrain all these guys. Some people like wave just can’t think and ponder. But some are very concern and these are within pr n bn supporters. Its messy,but need to articulate a common direction first.

      • I just love Alley Cats & Sudirman 😀

      • HY….

        “Berarak mendung kelabu
        Mengekori langkahku
        Sepanjang kehidupan
        Penuh dugaan”

        Bro…

        Mendung tak berarti hujan
        Yakinlah itu satu cobaan
        Masih ada waktu dan kesempatan
        Untuk meraih cinta dan kemenangan

        🙂

  7. Racist

    Cambridge Dictionary
    * believing that other races are not as good as your own and therefore treating them unfairly

    Dictionary.com
    * a person who believes in racism, the doctrine that a certain human race is superior to any or all others

    Merriam Webster
    * a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

    Oxford Dictionary
    * a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another

    • Thanks p2b.
      This post is getting us nowhere and unproductive.
      The jealously of DAP is the largest opposition party now.
      I will not post anything here. I have comment in “Selamat Mengundi” post. 😛

    • Are you saying those who support mother tounge education as racist?

      Btw you forgot to add the most important definition. DAP racist definition. If bn does it its racist. If malay does it its racist. but If they do it its not. If Chinese does it its not.

      Now put a stand. Did you condemn PR/ DAP Facebook propaganda playing on racial sentiment “1M Chinese reject MCA to represent the Chinese”. Do you call this racism? This is I believe the second time I ask.

      • I will not call it racism. To me I see it as jingoism. 🙂

      • To be more expressive, it is jingoistic snobbery rather than pure racism. 😀

        • hasan,

          You statement is little more extreme or exaggerated but nevertheless, it is heading that direction. 😉 More power creates more confidence, and more confidence creates more… We all have seen it UMNO, the kind of monster we have created.

          It is definitely not about racism. Ellese do not have any context to support it. Perhaps another Ibrahim Ali in the making.

        • :-). Playing racial card according to DAP is racist … except if DAP does it, it suddenly becomes Malaysian …..

  8. Bring back that lovin’ feeling,
    Whoa, that lovin’ feeling
    Bring back that lovin’ feeling,
    ‘Cause it’s gone…gone…

    we lost it and we found it…..

    • i cant stop laughing reading this:

      cina undi dap = cina racist
      cina undi pas = cina khianat
      cina undi pkr = cina sesak
      cina undi pr = cina tsunami
      cina undi bn = cina pendatang

      malaysian is damn creative and humour 🙂

      • HY, and… you know why Ellese is a racist now

        • Dear racist scum wave,

          Your persistent in being racist and discriminatory has to stop. If you continue one more time with unjustified racist allegation, ill do one post just for racists and confine you there.

          My point is to show how irresponsible many have used the word racist in particular yourself and DAP. I’ve enough of your baseless racist allegation. One more time, ill confine your write to the racists/ idiots post. You go read your comments there.

      • Dear HY,

        This is bad. The issue here is the pejorative language in which its racial connotation is couched. The usage of the language is to distort the history and planting negative image of the ‘Cina’ and to serve them as literary ‘hors-d’oeuvres’ to a group of society that cannot have enough of them.

        The idea is to provoke the ‘Cina’ to behave according to what the language connotes and thus to accept the consequences the images have for them. In addition, by repetition and reinforcing, it is to dupe the ‘Melayu’ into believing the ‘Cina’ legacy created by the negative imagery.

        The government must stop this. If not the PM and his ministers would be guilty of a dereliction of the most basic responsibility of any government: preventing a major breakdown of public order. What about our Penal Code? There should incorporate a clause… whosoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the feelings of any class of citizens of Malaysia, by words either spoken or written, or otherwise insults or attempts to insult of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment and public flogging.

        • Hasan

          Fully agreed with you. Alas, we seem to be in a country with 2 application of laws – one for BN and one for others. So BN does and says things with impunity.

        • Can agree…. But we must stop this irresponsible racist chanting. For years being Malay or even a call for Malay unity is racist. Saying I’m Malay Malaysian is by itself racist.

          The intent is to distort and implant negativity of being Malay. Its to make perjorative the Malay word.

          PR must stop this. This is irresponsible and wrong. Because people see Pr played the racial and religious card as well. People see the double standard. People see that the word racist is applied selectively for political purposes to suppress legitimate concern.

          We must recognise our differences be it race or religion. Just like PAS we must recognise they’re Islamist Malaysian. Its not right to call them bigots. Same with being Malay Malaysian. Not right to cast Malay racist. So do Chinese Malaysian, to call them perjoratively racist.

          When we built our nation we recognise this but instead focus on our common goals. We have become polarized as ever. One wants racial politics, one wants religious politics, one wants Malaysian politics but believe in separating our youngs by race etc etc. Apa Ni Malaysia.

          • Where did PR said being a Malay or calling for Malay unity or calling oneself Malay Malaysian is racist? That is really building a strawman, creating an imaginary argument.

            Being our selves cannot be racist. We are our own ethnic group. But things are less clear when we have so much inter-marraige between ethnic groups. Father Indian, mother Malay, child is a ….? Herein lies the trouble.

            Calling for Malay unity is not racist. If the context is purely about unity and not for superiority over another race which racism.

            Calling oneself a Malay Malaysian is not racist. It is being contradicting 1Malaysia, against Malaysian unity. Else drop the farcical slogan. 1Malaysia cannot be anything it means to you.

            It is not right to call PAS bigots just because they are an Islamic political party. Agreed.

            I agree everyone has the right to their own beliefs and we are different by ethnic composition. Who is arguing about this? It is enshrined in the Constitution.

            So what were you arguing again?

          • Because you are arguing on a different definition of racism. Not DAP definition of racism. You look at my previous commentaries. Anyway I’ve been accused so many times of this when I raise this argument.

            It doesn’t make sense. My question to you is that if I can lead you to people calling unity of Malay race as racism will you condemn them? If I can show you people saying I’m Malay first, will you condemn them?

        • this is a wide n deep topic, i dun have an answer. either we cowardly shrink back or we did like a butterfly leaving its cocoon to become a thing of beauty and strength. i prefer not to continue with the past sort of ‘peaceful’ life, like what ‘conquer’ presented, we cut off the road of retreat and move forward, bless us.

    • I love to listen to Andre Goh singing the ‘lagu asli’. 🙂

  9. I REST MY CASE

    Quote: “When we built our nation we recognise this but instead focus on our common goals. We have become polarized as ever. One wants racial politics, one wants religious politics, one wants Malaysian politics but believe in separating our youngs by race etc etc. Apa Ni Malaysia.”

    PR has been promoting the Malaysia for everybody that we are all equal. Policies must be based on needs and not by race. To help those who are poor and not for a particular ethnic group only. This is what attracted the voters especially the young ones. Nobody will lose and the entire country will progress.

    BN has been promoting the Malaysia for Malays and everybody else a “pendatang” so they must be grateful. BTN teaches Malays to hate other races and they are inferior in position to the Malays. The notion of Malay Ketuanan or Superiority is racist. BN is the one separating out young by race. If you can show me that this paragraph is completely unfounded, the I will retract and salute BN.

    You have said it right in your comment.

    I rest my case.

    • Why do you object and not recognise nonracial means specific policies of bn? Why do you not recognise race based policies of PR? Why do you not recognise religious based policies of pr?

      • Kindly give me the specific examples and I shall share my opinion. TQ.

        • Would you condemn others who call racist of there’s wanting to unite a race?

          • I will chide others who call racist of someone wanting to unite a race because by uniting a race itself though it is not specifically racist but playing the race card. Dangerous in our Malaysian context because it can cause racial strife and we must avoid that at all cost.

            The context will be more important to define the actions. What is that unity all about? Unity of race in a multiracial setting is a dangerous and sensitive call and must be very clear to the motivation and intentions.

            Is it political so that only a single racial party is voted to control other races? That is racist.

            You will argue that the Chinese voted DAP but that is not true because many (not all) voted for PR (includes PAS and PKR) as a whole regardless of party. Ask why that happened. And it is NOT to the detriment of other races because it is for fair, just and honest governance for all Malaysians regardless of race and religion. This is not racist. It is about values.

            Is it religious for then will step into an ultra sensitive area.

            Is it for superiority and that will make it very racist indeed.

            Is it for some politicians pleasure coz that will make him a bigot and the rest stupid.

            Is it for a football club then it will be strange to have a team built solely on a single race in a multiracial country.

            All Malaysians support the Malaysia Football Team however bad they may be playing. This we have unity when we talk about national aspirations.

            The question to ask will be what is race unity for it is meaningless within a multicultural, multiracial society. It is an oxymoron in a singular race society.

            In all your treatises, you argued essentially the same that we must recognize the diversity of race (but I will really prefer culture) and religion such that policies are not focused on a race basis. Did I get that right?

            If so, you are essentially arguing for a Malaysian Malaysia where we avoid the tagging of ethnic groups but celebrate the richness of culture and the national unity will be the identity of being a Malaysian rather than by race.

            So, if anyone calls for unity with the intent to raise the superiority spectre over others, I will condemn that call as racist.

            Is there no Malay unity? There is. Just that they happen to support different political parties. Does that make them disunited? Not at all. But Umno begs to differ for if all Malays do not vote them, there must be disunity. A fallacy indeed. Purely politically motivated and selfish. They cannot accept that Malays are mature and can think for themselves to choose which party to support.

            Is there no Chinese unity? There is. Just that now it revolves largely around the 3 PR parties and very little to MCA and Gerakan. But if there exists other parties to attract them by values they cherish, they will support too. Case in point – PAS has an all time high for Chinese support. They amended their Constitution to cater for others. They fielded non-muslims in GE13. They made their moves positive. But their votes for BN and Umno is limited to a few places like Kedah this time round. So if anyone call for Chinese unity, he is a nutcase.

            Is there no Indian unity? There is. They too revolve around BN and PR but specifically less to MIC. There are now more MPs from this ethnic group voted into Parliament and not because of BN or MIC. So if they call for all Indians to unite to eradicate poverty amongst Indians, that is selfish bordering racist because there are Malay and Chinese in that category too and do they mean don’t take care of them too?

            In the annals of history, any specific race calling for unity has not resulted in good things happening. Case in point is Hitler and the Aryan race.

            Malaysians must identify as Malaysians for national unity. Policies must be for all and the common basis must be on NEEDS and be FAIR. This is the value call by PR who managed to attract all Malaysians. BN can attract them if they find the right formula because the race formula in BN doesn’t work.

            For example, it must be policies to eradicate the hard core poor, not the Malay poor or Indian poor or Chinese poor. All of them, not some of them. For in Malaysia, based on statistics where Malays form over 60% of the population, you will also find a lot of them in the hardcore poor category. So the policy must be to remove hardcore poor of Malaysians regardless of race or religion.

            And I am sure you will agree to that. Ethnic groups must not view themselves by skin color but by common values as Malaysians.

            So who do I condemn? Anyone who is a racist and calls for racist actions regardless of political affiliation. It is the Govt responsibility to ensure a race unity is not called because that is a symptom to a serious problem. People react by calling for race unity when that particular group of people is victimized, ignored, sidelined, abused, marginalized, etc. This is the Govt’s responsibility to ensure it does not happen. You cannot correct a racist wrong by being a racist.

            Two wrongs don’t make one right.

          • You are one funny person. However long you write cannot erase what you said earlier. When you’re inconsistent it makes shallow your argument.

            What’s so wrong to condemn DAP? The racial card for the Chinese were played to the max. They say Mca and gerakan cannot represent the Chinese anymore. DAP is the party to protect them. They will stand against others unlike MCA who just follow UMNO. The social media propaganda were filled with this sentiment. The ceramah too.

            For me for past few years I call these pure hypocrites. A call for Malay unity by even sultan were condemned. Even saying I’m Malay first is racist. You and your selective values will never see this. If only if you can stay to a position than it would have been a credible argument. I ask for consistency and being principled. An action cannot be right by virtue its done by DAP or PR. Same action must have same value. This is where you can never understand and appreciate.

  10. Quote: “Because you are arguing on a different definition of racism. Not DAP definition of racism.”

    The issue I think is a wrong choice of words. Racist is what DAP does not want meaning to pit one race against another for superiority. Ethnic unity is not racist. It is a race issue. It is a racial issue as an English construct but it can be easily misconstrued. Ethnic unity is playing on the particular race. This is not racism but it is detrimental to national unity.

    There is only one definition to racism and it is not mine. It is the English word meaning and it is specific. It is not like the nebulous 1Malaysia definition, purposely vague according to Najib.

    We should be talking about Malaysian unity and that is all we should talk about.

  11. “this is a wide n deep topic, i dun have an answer. either we cowardly shrink back or we did like a butterfly leaving its cocoon to become a thing of beauty and strength. i prefer not to continue with the past sort of ‘peaceful’ life, like what ‘conquer’ presented, we cut off the road of retreat and move forward, bless us.”

    Yeah… you are right. As you have said in wakakaka “there are many two protagonists in one” and I would also add that there also many multiple monikers in the blogshpere.

    I will go along with your AlleyCats… ‘berarak mendung kelabu… aku tetap aku’…

  12. Can’t reply under your entry.

    You never read properly.

    1. DAP calling voters not to vote MCA or Gerakan is not about Chinese unity. This is purely political. The Chinese finally voted for PR. They support all Malaysians.

    This is sales talk, political rhetorics, your competitors can’t help you, we can. I do not subscribe to this strategy. It must be to show your strengths and not condemn others. DAP does it, so does Umno. Bad strategy. But is it racist?

    2. DAP never called for Chinese unity to suppress other races. Umno calls for Malay Unity to do what? Please explain. What is Malay Unity?

    3. Race Unity is a symptom of the result of Govt oppression. They feel oppressed so they call for unity to voice their concerns. If that is the case, is that racist?

    We need the context to put into perspective.

    • You are kidding me. Ill call a spade a spade. Why Chinese like pr is because DAP can protect chinese interest better. They have doubt in PAS and PKR is purely for Anwar. They see DAP is a party of equal. That’s why they attack MCA saying DAP can withstand PAS better than MCA can withstand UMNO. They condemn MCA ceeding chinese seat to UMNO. What has this to do with PR and Malaysians. They portray MCA as not being able and very weak to protect chinese interest. Their internet offensive is a simple direct play on chinese sentiment. its not about malaysian. its about the chinese. You can’t see this coz you’re too partisan. Man, you can’t even acknowledge the double standard of racism used by DAP.

      Again if you want to engage me deeper you must have a stand. I’ve been called a racist simply by arguing there’s nothing wrong for Malays to unite. Most of pr supporters I encountered are like that. You suddenly want to take a dictionary stand. I’m ok but you’ve never condemned those who are against me and calling me racist. I thus find you’ve been inconsistent. You cannot come to me with an argument to support pr because I’ve always say right and wrong does not depend on who does it. Most can’t appreciate that and in my view you too. Perhaps its time for me to write again and repeat why DAP is racist by its own standard.

      • DAP doesn’t protect Chinese interests very well. If I wanted Chinese interests protected I would have voted MCA. Just like, you know, all the Malays who want Malay interests protected vote UMNO…

        I have little time for Chinese interests. What Chinese interests are, all Malaysian interests are. That’s why PR gets my vote.

        There’s a big contradiction at the heart of your thesis, and I think you’re wilfully blind to it.

        • You must be joking. You look at the social media propaganda pun cukup. 1million Chinese don’t want Mca to represent Chinese. Huh? Not racist politics by dap definition? Dap played to the max pointing out the weakness of mca. Even giving in Chinese mca seats to umno became an issue. Don’t kid us.

          • You missed the point of that slogan. It doesn’t mean that DAP represents Chinese interests better. It means that the Chinese community don’t want racial politics a’la BN.

            Again, I point you to the fact that DAP has Chinese, Malay and Indian MPs and state assemblymen. If the Chinese community buy into this philosophy, it doesn’t mean it’s a racist philosophy. It means that the Chinese community buy into post-racial politics.

          • Then bn can never be racist coz it has a lot of races too. Umno cannot be racist coz it works and support other races. Apa lah ni. Why are you not using dap definition of racist?

          • The problem is, using all your examples (vernacular schools, racist campaign slogans, racial politics, ethnic rights), BN is far more culpable than PR.

            I attend a BN ceramah, all I hear is ‘support your race, we give your race what they want’. I go to a PAS ceramah, I hear people name-checking Islamic state, syariah etc, but in the next breath they say, we must obey the law, we are a parliamentary democracy, we work through that to achieve our goals. That’s a far more appealing message.

            Have you ever spoken to Lim Kit Siang? You can, you know. He’s not inaccessible. You can speak with him if you run into him. The man talks a good game, but he has the benefit of experience as well – he has gone to jail for what he believes in, and refuses to accept plaudits for it. I respect that, even I don’t agree with all he says. His son is the same.

          • BN and UMNO cannot be racist because they have lots of races and help other races. That is rubbish. Show me a Chinese member of UMNO. Show me a Malay MP in MCA. There is no such thing as separate but equal.

            As a Malaysian Chinese, I can tell you that BN and UMNO give me zero help. Probably even negative help, since I pay tax and get nothing back but racist Utusan headlines.

            That is the reason why the Chinese buy into post racial politics. Because in a post-racial world, they get a level playing field of opportunities. Lots of Malaysians migrated to Australia, because the Aussies believe in the concept of a ‘fair go’. That’s what the non-Malay Malaysians want – a fair go.

          • Hahaha. You’re such a crap. I use your own definition lah,

            Lets start from basic. You’ve never condemn dap definition of racism? What to you is dap definition of one being racist?

          • If you want to take it from the beginning, let’s hear why you think DAP is racist. I believe they are not, and gave you detail and facts. You simply dismiss them but never give me any evidence of your own.

          • I think you’re full of pretension. Never mind I play along.

            If I call I’m Malay first and then Malaysian. Is that statement racist?

          • You know my answer.

            Yes you are. Of course you are. There’s no getting around it.

            You are going to throw the example of PAS back at me again, in the mistaken belief that they provide a counterexample. So I will repeat myself – yes, when they say that Muslims come before non-Muslims, that is bigoted. But that is a more acceptable message to me than being bigoted by race. After all, I could choose to embrace Islam, but I can’t ever be Malay.

            So I support DAP, which is the only party calling for a Malaysian Malaysia. DAP makes common cause with PKR, which I could consider multi-racial, and PAS. That doesn’t mean I should stop supporting DAP. There’s such a thing as the lesser evil.

            Even more so when it’s clear that membership of PR is changing PAS, as it is changing DAP. PAS is starting to realise that it needs to be a party for all Malaysians, instead of just the Muslims. I feel comfortable with PAS ceramah. In the past, I would have felt unwelcome.

          • Is it also racist to say you’re Chinese Malaysian?

            Or I’m Indian Malaysian?

          • Oh please. You think it makes a difference if I call myself Malaysian Chinese or Chinese Malaysian? I can call myself both, still doesn’t change the fact that I am Malaysian first. This is how I live my life. End of story.

          • I repeat, if a Malay merely utters, I’m Malay Malaysian its racist, do you agree that merely uttering I’m Chinese Malaysian or Indian Malaysian as racist?

            How come when applied to you mere utterance is not a yardstick.

          • I agree if one calls Malay first, then a Malaysian, that it is probably not racist. It implies being a Malay is more important than being a Malaysian. It is bigotry.

            If it is about Ketuanan Melayu, that is racist. If calling oneself Malay first means this, then it is racist. Otherwise, it is being a bigot that the race is more important than the country. This will not augur well for national unity.

            Again, being a Malaysian does not do away with being a Malay either.

            However, JW, you may be wrong in that if you embrace Islam, speak the Malay language and practice the Malay culture will make you a Malay by the definition of the Constitution. Look at Ridhuan Tee Abdullah. I heard he does not consider himself a Chinese but rather a Malay. Only in Malaysia can one not only change religion but his race too. Confusing.

            Hannah Yeoh, DUN Subang Jaya, has a daughter classified as Chinese and another classified as Indian. That is even more confusing.

            If you have an Indian father and a Malay mother, what are you? 😉

          • JW is ignorant. In Malaysia malay Muslims all the while accept Chinese ke or Indians ke as Malay/ Muslims so long as they practice Islam and a degree of Malay culture. Pakai kain sarung cukup. speak malay cukup. easy language by many account. This is also accepted legally by our constitution. So many examples. Omar ong yoke ling. even dap use this definition on zairil. When Malay adopts a Chinese which had happened more regularly last time, the adopted children is considered Malay. My auntie is an example. Malays have always been open. That’s why dap racist attack on Mahathir lineage doesn’t make sense to Malays.

            By now you see JW premise of argument falls but he won’t admit yet. We go through a few false assumptions.

          • Ellese, you don’t seem to understand the weirdness of what you are saying?

            Consider this.

            1. Hannah Yeoh married an Indian, one daughter classified Chinese, the second classified Indian.

            2. Chinese man marries Indian lady, children are Chinese or Indian? Or Chindian as some say?

            3. Indian man marries a Chinese lady, children are Indian or Chinese? Or Chindian?

            Of course, there is no such classification as Chindian but how do we practically classify. The common practice is to take after the father. But none of them can become a PM (common practice) or MB (except in Penang and maybe Sabah and Sarawak).

            4. Malay man marries a Chinese/Indian lady, children are Malay.

            So this follows the common practice.

            5. Chinese/Indian man marries a Malay lady, children are Malay and can become a PM.

            6. Muslim non-Malay foreigner marries a Malay lady, children are Malay and can become an MB.

            This breaks the practice.

            So does when one embraces Islam, speaks the Malay language and practice the Malay culture, his/her race is changed to Malay. It’s like one born an Italian can suddenly become a German and we are not talking about nationality or changing his name from Tony to Schmidt either.

            But is he a Bumiputra as well? No. Only those in the table classification are recognized as such. And is somewhat arbitrary, if you ask me.

            This is not common knowledge to most Malaysians until the likes of Ridhuan Tee showed the ugly side of it.

            You see, we in Malaysia have a very confusing way of classifying people and that borders on racism which begat the Ketuanan Melayu by Umno. True or not?

            How can we have national unity by flaying other peoples especially the indigenous groups?

            JW is right. If we put ourselves being Malaysians above all else regardless of whatever slogan spiel, that will be the best common denominator for Malaysia to move forward. But many are stuck in a time warp of olden days and totally mistaken and perhaps changed what history actually was.

            In fact, there was more Malaysian spirit than today, sadly.

            Unity today means no opposition to BN. What crap! Seems we will get the unity soon when all those dissenting BN are locked up and newspapers burnt up. That’s National Unity for you.

          • Man, don’t blame people for one’s ignorance. The practice predates merdeka. And during merdeka we affirmed this social practice by law. We’ve lived like this for years tak da masalah pun. Malay are seldom racist and they are open to others as brother if one is Islam.

            PAS also have same mentality of acceptance.

          • You think simply ‘masuk Melayu’ means you get all the perks Malays get? I can tell you this is bull. I know converts who married Malays, speak bahasa, practice Malay culture whatever – still don’t get the bumiputera house price discount.

          • Bull. It was you who allege its not possible. Me and p2b and even dap prove in zairil its possible.

            No way out. Admit your statement was wrong.

          • Embracing Islam and being called a Malay does not make you a Bumiputra. There is a list the Govt builds on given the Constitutional nature. It has changed too. Eg Baba Nyonya were once classified as Bumiputra but no longer. But the Portuguese in Melaka remains as Bumiputra.

            Technically, if a Chinese becomes a muslim and then a Constitutional Malay like Ridhuan Tee, he must be a Bumiputra too. But is not merely a Muslim

          • You’re talking non sense. How come dap says zairil is bumi. Father and mother are Chinese but adopted by khir? All you Chinese accept him as Malay bumiputra.

          • What we say of a person to be a Malay or a Bumiputra is of no importance or consequence.

            What the NRD classifies that person officially is the thing that counts.

            That is the official data that is used for all benefits and privileges accorded to persons under that classification.

            I have a number of friends of Chinese descent who were adopted by Malay families and they enjoy the Bumiputra status and privileges while some others don’t. Somehow there appears no consistency in according such classification in practice.

            So Zairil is considered Malay Constitutionally speaking by many but others who are Malay consider him a Chinese still. That is his dilemma. It only happens in Malaysia.

            When I mention Hannah Yeoh’s quirky situation of her daughters, the NRD gave that classification – one Chinese, one Indian – in their birthcerts.

          • Ellese, you just don’t read properly or on purpose to be selective in your reply.

            What JW said is true and I agree.

            “You think simply ‘masuk Melayu’ means you get all the perks Malays get? I can tell you this is bull. I know converts who married Malays, speak bahasa, practice Malay culture whatever – still don’t get the bumiputera house price discount.”

            I already pointed out that Bumiputra status is by NRD, not us. Just embracing Islam and be called a Malay does not make you a Malay until the NRD accepts as valid in their system. So is the Bumiputra status.

            So for the lot who embraced Islam and changed their name do not make them auto Malays or Bumiputra.

          • Zairil proves my case, not yours – the system is broken and inconsistent. If you are right, then all converts should be considered Malay. I only need to find one case of discrimination to prove you wrong. I know of at least two.

            More to the point, why, in this day and age, do we still assign rights to people on the basis of their skin colour? All these issues, whether, for example, Zairil is Chinese / Malay / Bumi whatever, all sound like what South Africa experienced under apartheid. It was a heinous, ugly regime. So’s ours, if one has the courage to look.

  13. PR won the popular vote with multi-racial support, from all races. DAP even has Malay MPs. How you can call this racist, I don’t know. In the end, it’s fantasy, or more precisely, bullshit.

    • Please try to use the same standard of racism of DAP. Almost all my commentators agree that at least 90% of Chinese voted for dap/ pr. No one is saying no Malay voted pr. That’s pr propaganda untuk syok sendiri.

      • Which is why you’re talking rubbish. PR appeals to all races. It is the non-Malay Malaysians who recognise that PR is the side that will give them a better stake in their own country. How is this racist?

      • According to Najib and Utusan, it was a ‘Chinese tsunami’. The Chinese don’t have the numbers to do anything. If it’s a tsunami, it’s not just the Chinese.

        It’s not PR propaganda, it’s BN propaganda. Again, please get your facts right.

  14. Possibly 80% of the Chinese voted for PR, maybe higher. This was nearly matched by the Indians, of whom up to 75% voted for PR. Then if you do the maths, Malay support for PR must average something like 30-40%, and higher in urban areas.

    These are the facts. Engage with them please. Explain why this proves DAP are racist.

    • Most Malays support bn. Chinese less than 10% according to conventional wisdom support bn. Indians probably equal or slightly more towards bn.

      • If you mean more than 50% of Malays support BN, then yes, I agree. If you mean most, in the sense that more than 2/3 of Malays support BN, then no, that’s false. The Indian split is well known, it’s not equal, more like 75% support PR. The analysis can be found on Malaysiakini.

        Numbers don’t lie.

      • In the peninsula, PR won 53% of the vote, BN won 46%. Using the ethnic split (67% Malay, 25% Chinese, 8% Indian), on my numbers we get to 53% easily (0.4*67% = 26% Malay, 0.8*25% = 20% Chinese, 0.75*8% = 6% Indian, if you’re interested).

        Using your assumptions, we get 0.33*67% = 22% Malay, 0.9*25% = 23% Chinese, 0.5%*8% = 4% Indian, all sum up to 49%.

        Check your sums. They don’t support your story.

        • Why are you using population ratio and not actual voters number? Why you change your stand of Indian voters?

          • Population split to voter split is close enough. I didn’t change my stance on Indian voters.

            How about you justify your numbers?

        • Why are you splitting Sabah and Sarawak?

          • For simplicity. Include them if you like, still shows PR winning in almost all urban areas with multi-racial support.

          • Of courselah. The Urban area ada banyak Chinese. That’s why Teresa kok has huge majority. That’s why lks won. The support of the Chinese was overwhelming. What’s your point? Is it that Chinese don’t vote overwhelmingly for dap/ pr? Or is it that urban area has no Chinese ke?

            What’s wrong with admitting that the Chinese were almost united in rejecting Mca/ bn.

          • My point is that DAP’s politics win lots of votes from multiple races. The Chinese and Indians like DAP. Of course they do – Malaysian Malaysia means their lot improves. Malays don’t like DAP because Malaysian Malaysia means they don’t get special treatment. The change is urban Malays know that special treatment is holding Malaysia back.

            You say almost all the Chinese support PR, like no one else did. Three quarters of Indians support PR. 40% of Malays support PR. It’s not racial politics that wins these people over. Its the lack of racial politics.

          • What is Malaysian Malaysia? Do we put Malaysian first above all?

            What is the special privileges? Are you saying dap wants to abolish A153? What about the sultans?

          • Malaysian Malaysia means no more differences based on race. Yes, you’re going to cite your example of vernacular schools. So I’m going to keep pointing out your error here. Vernacular schools segregate pupils by language and not (intentionally) by race. My solution to this problem is different from yours. In any case you are not wholly consistent – you are deafeningly silent about MARA colleges, which – explicitly! – segregate Malay students from thos of other races.

          • Since I’m entertaining you, please follow through. Lets finish this once and for all. What is your definition of Malaysian Malaysia? Do we put Malaysian interest above all ethnic and race interest?

          • Malaysian Malaysia is not about turning the country into a Republic and abolishing the Constitution. It is so strange Ellese can swing off tangent and pretend he does not understand.

            Stand up and let all of us be treated as equal humans and Malaysians. We focus on values and needs rather than race. We are of the SAME nationality. We fight together for the best of the country. We stand together to help the weak, the poor and the less fortunate without any regard to race and religion because we are all Malaysians.

            The Agung and the Sultans are rulers of all Malaysians, not just the Malays. All Malaysians are their subjects. There are no classes. This is not a caste system. Nobody can lose their cultural identity by being a Malaysian. Nobody can lose their religious freedom by being a Malaysian. Together, we can make Malaysia a great nation.

            I agree with JW that vernacular schools is about the language, not the race but generally the race who speaks the language are the majority. Great point on Mara because it is effectively a closed vernacular institution, only intended for one race while other vernacular schools are open to all races.

            I have argued if the national school system can demonstrate that they have a higher quality education and can produce higher standard students, everybody will abandon vernacular schools and flock to national type. The language is but an excuse that they feel their own vernacular schools have a better quality of education and of a much higher standard.

            Once the national school system has a clearly higher standard of teaching and quality results, it will put tuition centers, vernacular schools and other private institutions to a close. Parents want the best they can get for their kids and they believe anything but the national schools can do that.

            National unity must start with inculcating values, not teach divisive ideas like BTN which spew anti-unity messages. This, as usual, gets the great silence from Ellese.

          • You’re too thick in blind racism. Its about Chinese culture. Your argument on language again reflect selectivity or in dap terms racism.

            I’m not pretending. I get upset with people shifting stands. I want you to put your position.

            Your interpretation on the sultan is totally false. Obviously you haven’t read the basic document of our country: our constitution. I don’t understand why we can’t read the basic tenets we agree to uphold. What’s wrong with you guys?

            Never mind. I feel I’m quite in a good mood and will take through again. P2b, I ask you to be intellectually honest. Please do so.

            Tell me what is Malaysian Malaysia? Do we put Malaysian interest above ethnicity?

          • Ellese, yes in short. Being Malaysian Malaysia is to encourage place the country above ethnicity. This is easier said than done and wisdom must prevail how to implement and get the entire country to buy in. There is all the upside and little to no downside. A country united by values and not ethnicity will move the country forward else it will be stuck in time and lost in divisiveness.

            What is wrong with my view of the Sultans? Although largely ceremonial, they are still viewed as rulers of the state over the subjects but without absolute executive powers.

            So, I really don’t understand why you harp on the Chinese culture matter which is not an issue here at all. It affects all ethnic groups. DAP promotes the Malaysian Malaysia concept so you might as well say this is an Opposition political concept. But it is not. PR subscribes to this and so does the majority of Malaysians.

            Do you object to this?

          • Do you know that sultans have wide powers to protect Islam and Malays and not ceremonial?

            Please read again our constitution.

          • Ellese, no need to patronise me thanks. Your Socratean method of argument isn’t very effective, since I answered all the questions already elsewhere. Anyway, you repeated the same question 2 or 3 times. Socrates never did.

            Let’s hear your basic argument for why DAP is racist please.

          • No. You allege first it can’t be done. I just showed you examples where even DAP recognised it can be done in zairil. He’s pure Chinese adopted by khir. So admit your assertion as usual is false. The fact you have friends I don’t know who cannot masuk melayu, its your problem lah. I have friends who do juga. But you can’t deny our law and practice have admitted Chinese Indians as Malay lah.

            As usual, you will never admit it when everyone knows you’re rubbish on this point. Now withdraw your ignorant assertion.

          • I don’t believe our constitution is inviolate. It’s already been changed hundreds of times by BN to suit their needs. You will note that vernacular schools are protected in the constitution. Yet I have never resorted to this justification, because, quite simply, it’s not a justification at all.

            Our constitution is contradictory. It’s not hard to improve it.

          • You’ve not read our constitution from your read. Of course we have to amend our constitution a lot. Its a detailed constitution unlike US.

            Rubbish. Go and read and then talk to me. You don’t know what Malaysian is.

          • What a nonsensical justification. It seems you have not checked through the hundreds of amendments of our Constitution and claim that ours is detailed. We are making it into a contract rather than a Constitution then.

            And you don’t know why those amendments were made either. So please do not make sweeping remarks as if you are all knowing now.

            With that amount of amendments, our original Constitution is quite different in many places toay.

    • Ellese is just trying to justify his claims.

      Read http://politweet.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/the-rural-urban-divide-in-malaysias-general-election/ who did an excellent analysis of the GE13.

      Further to this, let me share what LimKS computed for discussion.

      “Out of the 5.04 million [popular] votes obtained by PR [in Peninsular Malaysia], 2.31 million votes from the Malay voters, 2.29 million votes from the Chinese voters and 400 thousands from the Indian voters and 35 thousands from others,” said Lim.

      Chinese support for Pakatan Rakyat is estimated at 80% while Malay support is estimated at 42%, and Indian support at 50%.

      So, notice even at 80% Chinese votes is less than 42% Malay votes. In some places, PR lost Malay votes but made up by Chinese votes. In other places, PR won more Malay votes particularly in places like Terengganu and Kelantan.

      It appears unwise to generalize but must be viewed State by State and locality by locality and urban to rural. Local issues are different barring alleged fraud.

      • Please p2b,

        One thing I don’t like is people misleading with unsupported stats. I be polite first, how did you derive the 80% chinese stat and 40% Malay stats from your reference?

        • Please re-read my comments again.

          I was sharing a published comment by LimKS.

          The clear facts that I can verify are only the total voters but not the ethnic voter breakdown. EC never publishes and will not do that. The political parties can guesstimate given their info from the Salurans which I am not privy to.

          As much as your 90% Chinese voted PR is a gut feel and unsupported stats, I think LimKS will have his based on the PR saluran estimates. Again, that’s what I think as my GE13 Dataset does not comprise of ethnicity.

          If you have an excel spreadsheet with the ethnic voter columns, please email me and I will spend some time to analyze. For now, I think those of us without such data will share gut feel only.

          • Anwar lied at 7 when he said he has won.

            The SPR list is published. You can google it.

          • Please explain what your comments have to do with what we are debating here? It is totally irrelevant.

            Just that your style of argument is to throw a curved ball off tangent to distract from the topic when you have nothing more you can say.

  15. Ellese, you talk a lot about DAP definition of racism. What exactly do you think this is?

    More to the point, why do you care? I don’t care what UMNO’s definition of racism is. For one thing it’s bound to be wrong. I have my own, and I know it when I see it.

    By the way, thank you for hosting these discussions. I do not agree with you on much, even on how internet discussions are carried out, but you don’t moderate posts and that makes it more interesting.

    • If you intend to compliment, then thank you. Hehehe. I’ve met so many kinds of people and many just can’t handle the contrarion views. Many just censor and ban me to shut me up. What rubbish kan? 🙂

      Anyway please note ill reply in kind.

      Also its ok if you support pr ke, Bn ke, or parti Tupperware ke. Just be consistent with what you hold.

    • There is only the official definition of racism which I have shared the dictionary definition. Taking one race over another.

      Ellese tends to make up his own definition to justify what he wants to clobber.

      I will condemn DAP if Ellese can show me that they pit one race against another taking one as supreme and others as weaker. That has never been their stand as far as I know.

      I noticed Ellese never condemn Perkasa aka Umno hatchet men. Probably he does not consider them racist.

      • We can take through. I’ve done this. You know what without fail, Malaysians apply this selectively. If it doesn’t involve my race its ok but if it involves me its racist. Thus whenever it involves a Malay you would never hear dap calling it racist. You don’t want to take it through. Never mind. You will see a lot of Chinese adopting JW mindset. I bet you will not condemn the selectivity.:-).

        I will take through if you want. Done this before and some people here may be bored already. Ill tell you what ill do. I want those who argue racism to put a stand first. No point arguing shifting stand. I can respect your definition. But its not what dap’s definition. We can take through. Lets look at this typical JW mindset. May be he will change a bit after looking at your def but he already put a stand.

        • I agree that many Malaysians react emotionally and call many things racist without quite knowing what the definition is. They may misapply to statements and actions pertaining to race which they may not be happy with. Agreed.

          I maintain my stand to be consistent with a clear definition.

          rac·ism
          /ˈrāˌsizəm/

          Wikipedia
          Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior.

          Oxford
          the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

          Merriam-Webster
          a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

          Urban Dictionary
          Strict definition: An irrational bias towards members of a racial background. The bias can be positive (e.g. one race can prefer the company of its own race or even another) or it can be negative (e.g. one race can hate another). To qualify as racism, the bias must be irrational. That is, it cannot have a factual basis for preference

          I personally do not like to describe people by race because it is debatable what constitute a race and what actions constitute racism. It becomes emotional and irrational. It has a tendency to pit one group of people against another much like MU fans against Liverpool fans when they clash.

          I subscribe to the Malaysian Malaysia where values and needs become the focus rather than ethnicity.

          You keep saying this is not DAP’s definition. Can you show evidence to this and not just make unsupported claims?

  16. No selectivity in my mindset. I am Malaysian first, no excuses. Few in UMNO dare to come out and say that. In fact, Ellese, can you say that?

    DAP does really aspire to be race-blind. it’s true that there are Chinese chauvinist elements in DAP, but people like Lim Kit Siang, Lim Guan Eng, Karpal – they do battle in their own party every day against racism.

    There’s been a big injection of new membership in DAP since 2006 or so. The party is changing rapidly, as is PAS and PKR. The new breed – people like Tony Pua, Ong Kian Ming, Zairil etc, are capable. And as far as I can tell, honest and principled.

    You may think that I am an uncritical and unconditional DAP supporter. You would be wrong. One of the people mentioned here is indeed my MP, and he gets my vote because he is a good MP, and (along with his party) espouses what I think are the right principles for Malaysia. That’s all.

    • PR is transforming in the right direction. Not only DAP but PKR and PAS too.

      The younger and more dynamic leaders are professionals in their own right. They bring with them skills and expertise that is sound and pragmatic.

      Mohd Ariff Sabri, Zairil, Tony Pua, Ong Kian Ming, Wong Chen, Mahfuz, Khalid Samad, Liew Chin Tong, Nurul Izzah, Rafizi, etc are the new breed that will take PR forward. I know some of them, exchanged notes with a few of them, and my conclusion after comparing with BN leaders gives me new respect for these political leaders. I believe in their time to lead, we will have a brighter Malaysia.

      They are all in line with the Malaysian First aspiration which Lim KS, Lim GE, Anwar, Husam Musa, Mat Sabu, Azmin, Wan Azizah all having publicly professed.

      So, Ellese, are you Malaysian First? 😉

    • Bull. Lets focus. If one puts race interest first above being Malaysian, is this racist to you?

      • Ellese

        You never fail to amaze me by constantly calling comments by others bull when you say nothing yourself.

        Answer yourself. If one puts race interest first above being Malaysian, is this racist to you? State your position clearly then we debate.

  17. Yes. You?

    Don’t drag DAP into this. The party’s political positions are not necessarily mine. I know my own mind, and I know what I want. Do you?

    • JW

      You will never get anywhere with this debate. Ellese will never change his position and shifts to different topics when he can’t proceed and throw you a curved ball. Not sure about you but most of us are not members of any party yet Ellese loves to pit against the DAP for some reason. Why not Umno? They are the saints to Ellese probably. He never state his stand except to ask everybody else and attack them.

      Now, Ellese, state your position clearly. Don’t make sweeping remarks about DAP this or that. State clearly where they said what you claim and then we take it from there. Somehow, you see a side of DAP we never know and we see the side of Umno you refuse to see. Herein lies the great divide.

      • I think Ellese is an UMNO apologist, and quite happy to defend Malay special privileges and perpetuate our country’s inherent racism. In this, he is no different from many Malaysians.

        What I find annoying is that he doesn’t want to admit this. He claims to have examples of awful behaviour from both sides, but in practice he only writes fantasies about PR (DAP is racist, PKR are liars, cheats and thieves, and PAS are too Islamic).

        • You are probably right. He has never stated his positions when pressed. He uses examples of DAP which none of us ever heard. When pressed to disclose the reference to what was actually said, he avoids answering. He does take the standard position of Umno and defends that ardently. He does not see the fallacies of Umno and BN the way they actually are from a factual way.

        • P2Bm, you’re already noted to shift goalposts as you like and for your intellectual dishonesty.

          You JWT, do not admit what you’ve written wrongly before as wrong. Thats your problem. I wrote against you because there are many people like you who take unjustified moral high ground. You’re annoying me.

          • Ellese, you portray yourself so self righteous, never state your position clearly, never provide evidence, only attack others but never present your own to be scrutinized. You love to call people names when you cannot debate, always say I shift goal post. I have kept insisting you state your position but you NEVER once did that.

            Which moral high ground taken here is unjustified? Just because it is different from yours which we really don’t quite know because you kept using rhetorical questions. State yours and we shall scrutinize, ok?

            We await.

            “If one puts race above country, is that considered racist?” Answer first.

          • If I found you that annoying I’d just stop visiting. Look, this is the internet. Don’t take it so seriously.

            I don’t pretend to take any moral high ground. However, I do have principles and I keep to them. One of these principles is to speak up whenever there’s something wrong going on. If you see this as me taking a moral high ground, then maybe you’re in a particularly low place morally.

            If you want me to retract what I’ve said, get me to change my mind. So far, all you say simply makes me more convinced that I’m right. It’s actually not that hard – evidence and examples would do.

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