The right of reply

Enough is enough. People who proclaim to fight for freedom of expression and free media but censors other's legitimate reply based on their whims and fancy, must realise that on the internet, they cannot suppress peoples' legitimate right to reply and express contrarian views. This blog welcomes all views. ~ Ellese

The extent of lies these christians??? do to win the Allah argument

7 Comments

The Church in Malaysia has been arguing that the BM Bible has been used in Malaysia for hundred of years (400 to be precise). To this I have rebutted that this is not possible as Christianity was only introduced much much later. One of my source for such argument is wikipedia (see christianity in malaysia) which unambiguously stated then to the effect that christianity was only introduced in in sabah in 1882 to the hakkas.

And you know what happended now after my argument? They recently amended wikipedia to show it was introduced much earlier during the Spanish era. It stated “The influence of the Spanish missionaries coming mainly from neighboring Philippines resulted in Christianity, in its Roman Catholic form, rising to prominence amongst Kadazans in Sabah.” This is stated prior to the statement that christianity was introduced to the hakkas in 1882.

Betul ke ni?

Then there is a footnote pula to support this. It leads you to this http://www.cidcm.umd.edu/mar/assessment.asp?groupId=82004.And you know what there is nothing there at all mentioning about christianity by the Spanish people. Can you believe that?

I will rebut to this ridiculousness later but want to put you the context on why this issue was raised. It was pursuant to a debate that I had with one gullible but polite person called Adam at Nut Graph. He is arguing that based on this reference Christianity was introduced much much earlier than 1882. He argued that Sultan sulu ceded Sabah to Spain much earlier in 1700s. Thus a long history of BM Bible???

Man. Can you believe the deception people do to win an argument. They amend wikipedia. For goodness sake. The more falsehood you create the more inconsistent it becomes with other historical facts. There is so much wikipedia you can amend. I point blank state this and this was my reply”

“Jahat betul these Christians [???] and I hope you’re [adam] not part of it. The sources you quoted were amended by them to deceive. Some of the sources you quoted expressly stated prior to this that Christianity was introduced in Sabah to the hakkas in 1880s. After my highlight it was then amended with unproven and unsubstantiated statement that the kadazan was introduced to Christianity by the Spanish much much earlier. There’s no evidence adduce to this.

If you care to read the sources you quoted, there’s no evidence that Spanish was physically in Sabah. These lies were created recently and they think people can’t discern. Don’t they realize that the more they fabricate the more inconsistent the historical facts become.

Now please be informed that Sultan Sulu signed the treaty which purported to cede Sabah to Spain in 1851 [only] after the attack by Spain in Jolo. The treaty was disputed on whether there was cessation. International Court of Justice acknowledged the cessation only happened in 1885 aje. And please bear in mind that by 1851 Sultan Sulu was only controlling a part of Sabah (coastal area) as the rest was controlled by Bulungan Sultanate.

So much so is the doubt of effective control by the Spanish, the British signed lease agreements of the sabah area with sultan sulu and not Spain in 1761 and again 1878. What happened to the Spanish?

The Madrid treaty of 1885 [where Spain acceded Sabah to UK] only confirms what’s on the ground and the British wanted it [Sabah] badly. Please bear in mind that the US position is that Sabah was never ceded to Spain and objected to the British annexation thru the Madrid treaty.

So stop these lies to deceive. You’re going to amend a lot on Wikipedia to be consistent. You cannot hide the truth lah. The Spanish at best has de jure control in 1878 aje. In 1882 please be mindful the British made kudat the capital. Bila hari pula Spain came to Sabah to convert?….”

P.S. I have intentionally used the word “Christians” to provoke and express my anger. The debate has been between the Christians and Muslims. Only the Christians have interest to amend the Wikipedia. The other more precise way is to refer to “those supporting the Christians who wants to use Allah” [aka christians??] but this is too wordy. Anyway the reference to “these Christians” has the same meaning intent and to the point.

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7 thoughts on “The extent of lies these christians??? do to win the Allah argument

  1. Pingback: Orang Sepanyol pula yang mendarat di Sabah? | Helen Ang

  2. Hi! I’m here for the first time after Helen write something from your blog, and read a few articles of yours. Just keep it up!

  3. I wonder why in this discussion there was no mention of the Potuguese rule in Melaka since 1511 AD? Those Portuguese were Roman Catholics too. There were “intermarriages” (or intermingling of genes) with the locals as well resulting in those descendants found currently at the Portuguese Settlement in Melaka – many have also spread to other parts of Malaysia now. They did spread Christianity too amongst the locals but of course they obviously did not use the BM Bible to do the work. Probably they used the Portuguese Language or Latin etc.
    As proven elsewhere the word Allah was used by many even in pre-Prophet Mohammad’s time and continues till today. Even his father’s name “Abdullah – meaning the slave of Allah” was ample proof that the word Allah was not reserved only for Islamic use – though the concept of Allah as understood by all Muslims rather than the mere word of Allah is different from the concept understood by the others. This difference in concept can be misuderstood and exploited. This is the reason why we question the use of the word Allah in the BM Bible which appears designed to convert or at least attract the Malays to Christianity in Peninsular Malaysia – which is against the spirit of the Constitutions. The Indon Language Bible can be used by Christians in Sabah & Sarawak since they have been imported from Indonesia and used even before the formation of Malaysia – but BM Bible should not be allowed to be introduced anywhere in Malaysia and the Indon Language Bible should also not be allowed in the Peninsula.

  4. helen likes your post
    surely many more will ;p

  5. Pingback: The big, big problem with BN is … | Helen Ang

  6. Pingback: The Star placed Agong beneath Guan Eng | Helen Ang

  7. Ellese,

    Save for a few debatable facts – which I’m not gonna get into here – you are correct in educating the uneducated.

    I used to be a strong PR supporter but the advantage of being inside is that you get the true story, not the edited ones that goes out to the supporters. And the truth is, as much as DSAI thinks he’s the undisputed leader, he’s just a pawn in the grand scheme of things. And it’s sad to know that for a master politician, he’s being played, and he doesn’t seem to get it.

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